I like how you broke this down. I hadn't really thought about it like this but it makes sense. What's interesting is the way we react to a 'bride price' and yet fully accept that you're supposed to drop a crap-ton on a ring you give the girl.
I totally forgot about that - still very common in India lol. So really, we practice these “patriarchal” rituals with aplomb, but we need to do it with a feminist cover to morally wash it.
It reminds me again of the denigration of Capitalism and of "Chasing the money". Ick. Dreadful. Intolerable. Low.
Okay, but if you remove money as currency, what's left? How do you allocate resources and favors? A: SOCIAL Capital. As in "Socialism." And that's what you see here. It's all Social Signaling, which is very poor accounting, with each person valuing differently, and where one calls a Plus Ledger (Marriage) another calls a Deficit Ledger (that it's a diamond, and Patriarchy). You never know where you are and any second all the rules flip. They can just re-interpret Wealth as poverty and oppression when the next NYT article or movie comes out, then everyone needs to re-structure again. ...I'm not making this up, it's been 20 years watching nothing but this now. It's exhausting, and a perfect way to insure nothing gets done, no REAL goods of wealth and ease are created, and all the wrong people are "rich" (i.e. social-climbing narcissists and sociopaths).
The real irony is all the people "Signaling" would be at the dead bottom of the wealth and status ledger if there were a real Socialist revolution that replaced Capitalism, and probably shot.
On the flip side, under Capitalism, we still have BOTH systems of value. Money AND status. So if one fails you, or that's not your forte', you have a fallback angle. That's also true in, e.g. the Soviet Union, but less so.
Even naming these systems in your article is exhausting to me, so because I would be, eg, growing peas and making people happy with simple work,I would be at the dead-bottom level of social poverty. So how is their system of Social Valuing a good and progressive one? It would seem objectively almost the worst one that could be devised.
You are correct. I've shunned the status games and reaped the losses accordingly. People get very offended when you won't play. Those with the ability to grant everything are those people to whom the game is everything. It's not just a ring, it's an invitation, a promotion, a ridiculous amount of free stuff! If you're not married and don't have kids you won't even get a look in when it comes to the family heirlooms, however few there may be. What would be the point? We are humans, the prime directive is survival for ourselves and our lineage. We don't like bad bets (even bad bets who have been together 20 years now). Play honestly but not cynically, gratitude is the grace that makes it forgivable, and know that it also took a little grace to give in to the game.
I've never thought that the size/shape/color of a ring was that important, but only to designate a status of wedded, or similar. I know some single women and men who wear 'wedding' rings just to eliminate "hovering" as you say.
Just don't try to take a diamond ring into sell/trade as you'll get peanuts for it as the diamond industry itself is one of the biggest rackets. We inherited a collection of diamonds/rings, etc. from a death of a relative and it was more purposeful just to do some new settings for the gems as they were 'priceless' as in, we'll give you a few hundred bucks for that gem someone paid thousands for.
Re: status, most people around us tend to see items such as homes, neighborhoods, cars/trucks/boats, etc. as the status symbol of choice. I prefer the mode of walk/talk softly, but carry a big stick. YMMV.
The ultimate reasons for doing something are because it aligns with a moral code or because it makes you happy. There is some overlap and conflict of course between these two forces but in general many things such as what type of engagement ring to have simply fall into the "do it because it pleases you" bucket.
Good for you, letting yourself enjoy some traditional things such as an engagement ring. I gave some thought to this topic before I bought one. By that point I was already exhausted by all the rules associated with being a progressive, the way you have to dislike everything about a normal traditional life:
1) you shouldn’t get married because it’s a backwards institution;
2) if you do, you can’t get a diamond ring for a bunch of reasons;
3) you have to want to live in a big city for the rest of your life because all other places are inhabited by dragons;
4) you should dislike cars;
5) you shouldn’t want to have children what with all the kids needing adoption and the climate footprint etc;
6) you shouldn’t work for a profit-seeking enterprise because commerce is exploitative;
7) I could go on and on with this list.
I lived in a way that met these requirements for quite a while, but as I got older I discovered these beliefs were no longer serving me. Letting them go was a massive contributor to the increase in my personal happiness, and a profound liberation. I’ve never been happier than since I moved as a married person into a large house in the suburbs, got two cars and had two kids. I still retain the things of value from my prior life and look back fondly on that time, but it was a much less satisfying transition period. It’s okay to want to settle down and have a normal life. Just my thoughts as I struggled with many such issues as a result of what got put in my head in college.
Thanks for taking us into your head, as always, Anu 🖤
“Again, we see the clash between stated and revealed preferences, with material status incentives usually winning over ideological commitments. (This also plays out in the bedroom, but that’s another essay).” Please write this essay.
PS – the happiness you have radiating from all of your engagement photos is so special to see
This was interesting to read. I only have one cousin who is married, but he is a man and we arent close so I wasnt invited to his wedding. None of my female cousins my age are married. I am not married. I only have one married friend and she got married in Vegas.
So I am fascinated by this post. I have never give much thought to engagement rings before. This is probably because I have never been in a position to contemplate it.
I like how you broke this down. I hadn't really thought about it like this but it makes sense. What's interesting is the way we react to a 'bride price' and yet fully accept that you're supposed to drop a crap-ton on a ring you give the girl.
I totally forgot about that - still very common in India lol. So really, we practice these “patriarchal” rituals with aplomb, but we need to do it with a feminist cover to morally wash it.
how sweet, congratulations <3
It reminds me again of the denigration of Capitalism and of "Chasing the money". Ick. Dreadful. Intolerable. Low.
Okay, but if you remove money as currency, what's left? How do you allocate resources and favors? A: SOCIAL Capital. As in "Socialism." And that's what you see here. It's all Social Signaling, which is very poor accounting, with each person valuing differently, and where one calls a Plus Ledger (Marriage) another calls a Deficit Ledger (that it's a diamond, and Patriarchy). You never know where you are and any second all the rules flip. They can just re-interpret Wealth as poverty and oppression when the next NYT article or movie comes out, then everyone needs to re-structure again. ...I'm not making this up, it's been 20 years watching nothing but this now. It's exhausting, and a perfect way to insure nothing gets done, no REAL goods of wealth and ease are created, and all the wrong people are "rich" (i.e. social-climbing narcissists and sociopaths).
The real irony is all the people "Signaling" would be at the dead bottom of the wealth and status ledger if there were a real Socialist revolution that replaced Capitalism, and probably shot.
On the flip side, under Capitalism, we still have BOTH systems of value. Money AND status. So if one fails you, or that's not your forte', you have a fallback angle. That's also true in, e.g. the Soviet Union, but less so.
Even naming these systems in your article is exhausting to me, so because I would be, eg, growing peas and making people happy with simple work,I would be at the dead-bottom level of social poverty. So how is their system of Social Valuing a good and progressive one? It would seem objectively almost the worst one that could be devised.
You are correct. I've shunned the status games and reaped the losses accordingly. People get very offended when you won't play. Those with the ability to grant everything are those people to whom the game is everything. It's not just a ring, it's an invitation, a promotion, a ridiculous amount of free stuff! If you're not married and don't have kids you won't even get a look in when it comes to the family heirlooms, however few there may be. What would be the point? We are humans, the prime directive is survival for ourselves and our lineage. We don't like bad bets (even bad bets who have been together 20 years now). Play honestly but not cynically, gratitude is the grace that makes it forgivable, and know that it also took a little grace to give in to the game.
I knew you'd write a good one about this ;)
Fascinating topic.
I've never thought that the size/shape/color of a ring was that important, but only to designate a status of wedded, or similar. I know some single women and men who wear 'wedding' rings just to eliminate "hovering" as you say.
Just don't try to take a diamond ring into sell/trade as you'll get peanuts for it as the diamond industry itself is one of the biggest rackets. We inherited a collection of diamonds/rings, etc. from a death of a relative and it was more purposeful just to do some new settings for the gems as they were 'priceless' as in, we'll give you a few hundred bucks for that gem someone paid thousands for.
Re: status, most people around us tend to see items such as homes, neighborhoods, cars/trucks/boats, etc. as the status symbol of choice. I prefer the mode of walk/talk softly, but carry a big stick. YMMV.
The ultimate reasons for doing something are because it aligns with a moral code or because it makes you happy. There is some overlap and conflict of course between these two forces but in general many things such as what type of engagement ring to have simply fall into the "do it because it pleases you" bucket.
All politics aside, congratulations!
Congrats, your man looks masculine with a great beard. Will you be taking his last name?
I don’t love the idea especially because my name is so long already that changing Pandey to an even longer one feels cumbersome
Good for you, letting yourself enjoy some traditional things such as an engagement ring. I gave some thought to this topic before I bought one. By that point I was already exhausted by all the rules associated with being a progressive, the way you have to dislike everything about a normal traditional life:
1) you shouldn’t get married because it’s a backwards institution;
2) if you do, you can’t get a diamond ring for a bunch of reasons;
3) you have to want to live in a big city for the rest of your life because all other places are inhabited by dragons;
4) you should dislike cars;
5) you shouldn’t want to have children what with all the kids needing adoption and the climate footprint etc;
6) you shouldn’t work for a profit-seeking enterprise because commerce is exploitative;
7) I could go on and on with this list.
I lived in a way that met these requirements for quite a while, but as I got older I discovered these beliefs were no longer serving me. Letting them go was a massive contributor to the increase in my personal happiness, and a profound liberation. I’ve never been happier than since I moved as a married person into a large house in the suburbs, got two cars and had two kids. I still retain the things of value from my prior life and look back fondly on that time, but it was a much less satisfying transition period. It’s okay to want to settle down and have a normal life. Just my thoughts as I struggled with many such issues as a result of what got put in my head in college.
Nice to see a picture of you and your man!
Beautiful piece! And congratulations!
Thanks for taking us into your head, as always, Anu 🖤
“Again, we see the clash between stated and revealed preferences, with material status incentives usually winning over ideological commitments. (This also plays out in the bedroom, but that’s another essay).” Please write this essay.
PS – the happiness you have radiating from all of your engagement photos is so special to see
Congratulations!
This was interesting to read. I only have one cousin who is married, but he is a man and we arent close so I wasnt invited to his wedding. None of my female cousins my age are married. I am not married. I only have one married friend and she got married in Vegas.
So I am fascinated by this post. I have never give much thought to engagement rings before. This is probably because I have never been in a position to contemplate it.
Thank you for writing this!