I find it interesting because Plato argued the exact opposite. Now we may have a nuance here of listening to the writing vs. reading the writing but the oral tradition he describes was heavily influenced by the retelling of stories over time.
Another thought is that in our western culture, we are terrible at listening vs. reading. Other cultures are not like that where they suck at consuming written work but can pick things up verbally very well and remember it.
I had a strong position like this when I went into college and would argue when friends said they “read” an audiobook (even the verb usage gives it away - how do you read with your ears?) I started listening to more audiobooks after having kids, as others have mentioned, and gave more grace to those friends who were audiobook fans. However, I have always loved to read and listening to an audiobook has never felt the same to me. I’m grateful for this discussion because it has reminded me of my previous stance. I enjoy an occasional audiobook, but I neither retain the information nor feel like it is building my intellect or knowledge base. Audiobooks have their place, but they feel more like extended podcasts to me. It’s nice to absorb some information while sweeping, but only if it’s a book that I don’t see myself sitting down to read.
A credentialed white collar knowledge worker here, and dad of two young boys. If I gave up on audiobooks I'd have to cut my intake of texts and ideas drastically. Clearly , reading a book is not the same as listening, as McLuhan would let us know, and I would surely prefer reading a book than listening to it. BUT audiobooks have a place of their own, particularly for those who don't have the leisure and can't afford the luxury of spending multiple hours reading all they want to read.
Moreover authors don't necessarily write text because they want one to necessarily read it off the page but because of historical reasons that have to do with media environments and the way they are set up, and the reason people can multitask when they listen to audiobooks isn't that they are less complicated but obviously because audiobooks free one's sense of sight so that one can drive or wash dishes while listening to a book.
In sum, as an author and lover of books I find this discussion, while rooted in a true distinction, to be quite fetishistic. There are multiple ways to get informed and think. Reading books may be a golden standard but we shouldn't fetishize it to the degree of shaming or disdaining those who make other choices.
I tend to agree with you on your point. Additionally, if the book is read by the author themself, I often find it even more enjoyable. That's not to say that I don't like to read, because I do. I'm just saying that I agree with your argument, and sometimes I get even more from an audiobook than I could get from a book. The reverse is also true. Sometimes reading the book is far superior to listening to the audio, especially as I pointed out when it's not the author reading it. I often do my best listening on long-distance drives.
I’m not arguing against audiobook listening, just against the pretense that they’re the same thing requiring the same effort and leading to the same outcomes.
I prefer to read. My mind can spontaneously drift off, and when it returns I can easily pick up where I left off. Same if someone interrupts me to tell me something; I can pick up right where I left off.
I prefer paper books to electronic. For one thing, without paper books, there would be no used book sales; I would miss them.
If others prefer to listen, that is their business.
You and Mary Harrington really are writing about the same subject at the moment, would love for you two to have a conversation about it!
Additionally, your thesis is something I notice in myself as well.
When I read (as opposed to listening to a podcast) the act of generating the words / manifesting the language from the page is a mental exercise that is absolutely "doing" something.
i.e. "lifting the words from the page" is the act of exercising the mind.
Great stuff, especially the take down of the Audible funded study.
The Great White North, or Canada, has the highest credentialed society per capita in the G7.
I would argue that my grandparents generation, forged through an economic depression and poverty, immigration and war are far smarter than the Canadians of today.
I find it interesting because Plato argued the exact opposite. Now we may have a nuance here of listening to the writing vs. reading the writing but the oral tradition he describes was heavily influenced by the retelling of stories over time.
Another thought is that in our western culture, we are terrible at listening vs. reading. Other cultures are not like that where they suck at consuming written work but can pick things up verbally very well and remember it.
Here're Plato's arguments: https://www.ancientgreekphilosopher.com/2015/09/14/platos-philosophical-answer-to-the-three-deficiencies-of-the-written-word/
I had a strong position like this when I went into college and would argue when friends said they “read” an audiobook (even the verb usage gives it away - how do you read with your ears?) I started listening to more audiobooks after having kids, as others have mentioned, and gave more grace to those friends who were audiobook fans. However, I have always loved to read and listening to an audiobook has never felt the same to me. I’m grateful for this discussion because it has reminded me of my previous stance. I enjoy an occasional audiobook, but I neither retain the information nor feel like it is building my intellect or knowledge base. Audiobooks have their place, but they feel more like extended podcasts to me. It’s nice to absorb some information while sweeping, but only if it’s a book that I don’t see myself sitting down to read.
Well, I’m a white, credentialed woman and I completely agree with you.
My comment about the same has gotten me the same backlash you describe….ableist (what a stupid word), judgmental, blah, blah blah.
You are 100% correct that the people complaining want the credit without the work.
I always appreciate hearing from women like you because it confirms I’m not crazy
“The problem raised is that the credentialed still want an intellectual identity despite lacking the attention span to read.”
Yup!
The irony of me listening to the article
A credentialed white collar knowledge worker here, and dad of two young boys. If I gave up on audiobooks I'd have to cut my intake of texts and ideas drastically. Clearly , reading a book is not the same as listening, as McLuhan would let us know, and I would surely prefer reading a book than listening to it. BUT audiobooks have a place of their own, particularly for those who don't have the leisure and can't afford the luxury of spending multiple hours reading all they want to read.
Moreover authors don't necessarily write text because they want one to necessarily read it off the page but because of historical reasons that have to do with media environments and the way they are set up, and the reason people can multitask when they listen to audiobooks isn't that they are less complicated but obviously because audiobooks free one's sense of sight so that one can drive or wash dishes while listening to a book.
In sum, as an author and lover of books I find this discussion, while rooted in a true distinction, to be quite fetishistic. There are multiple ways to get informed and think. Reading books may be a golden standard but we shouldn't fetishize it to the degree of shaming or disdaining those who make other choices.
Nailed it! For goodness sakes, sometimes an audiobook is the most you can do when your Bookclub picks really stupid shit.
I tend to agree with you on your point. Additionally, if the book is read by the author themself, I often find it even more enjoyable. That's not to say that I don't like to read, because I do. I'm just saying that I agree with your argument, and sometimes I get even more from an audiobook than I could get from a book. The reverse is also true. Sometimes reading the book is far superior to listening to the audio, especially as I pointed out when it's not the author reading it. I often do my best listening on long-distance drives.
I’m not arguing against audiobook listening, just against the pretense that they’re the same thing requiring the same effort and leading to the same outcomes.
I prefer to read. My mind can spontaneously drift off, and when it returns I can easily pick up where I left off. Same if someone interrupts me to tell me something; I can pick up right where I left off.
I prefer paper books to electronic. For one thing, without paper books, there would be no used book sales; I would miss them.
If others prefer to listen, that is their business.
tired of fucking f-bombs when they add nothing
😂😂😂
You and Mary Harrington really are writing about the same subject at the moment, would love for you two to have a conversation about it!
Additionally, your thesis is something I notice in myself as well.
When I read (as opposed to listening to a podcast) the act of generating the words / manifesting the language from the page is a mental exercise that is absolutely "doing" something.
i.e. "lifting the words from the page" is the act of exercising the mind.
I don’t follow her closely, nor would someone with an orange checkmark talk to me but it’s a thought.
Great stuff, especially the take down of the Audible funded study.
The Great White North, or Canada, has the highest credentialed society per capita in the G7.
I would argue that my grandparents generation, forged through an economic depression and poverty, immigration and war are far smarter than the Canadians of today.
Anuradha, you seem more cutting-edge with every post. Good for you. I find myself wondering about the slog you're embarking.
Nailed it.