Don't y'all have chores to do? Errands to run? I'm sitting in the Atlanta airport and I don't see anyone if any sex looking at anything but their phones.
sigh, there is something in here that addresses a "universal" human condition ? men evolved for a desire for women but culture and civilization has altered us from pure animals, running around in packs with fire and barely any technology. and we talk among ourselves and save information. we are not animals but our innate drives are.
i would venture that most cultures value the "beauty" in young adults males and females but use a variety of cultural habits to judge and reward such individuals in each generation. the gaze is inherent but various actions are cultural responses.
at 70 years old, my american manners tell me "do not stare in public". As a "real man with a reputation/status in one's world", one never approaches a strange woman in public (because you are attracted to her appearance), civilized men do not do such. Those manners also state, "women should dress non-provocatively in public".
most attractive women dressed for travel in public or at work in the USA, often have to adopt facial expressions to dissuade strange men (always men) who approach them in public without permission. And learn to be rude as needed. Or avoid certain locations and situations, because the sense of physical/rape risk is too large. is it stupid to try to be safe ?
perhaps there are a number of men who are not "fit for society".
Just how many men are needed to perpetuate our culture with the technology our civilization has created ?
i like men and women seeking love and trying to find mates and partnering up and oops ! having children.
I'm interested in the male gaze in film and television. If women complain about movies and shows being all eye candy for men, I can respect that complaint because it is more or less true. However, some women think the solution is less female eye candy, while others think it's more male eye candy to balance things out. Any thoughts on how you'd respond to either?
I don’t think women gaze at men like men look at women, so more men to balance seems silly. There’s no market for it. I think there is no solution - why moralize about entertainment?
Yeah, they did this in Germany. "life unworthy of life"
It was called Aktion T4 and was meant to stop dysgenic men from passing on their defective genes.
Feminism itself is a challenge for weak men to believe or disbelieve, if they disbelieve they're eugenic men and get to breed. If not, well, either they don't breed or breed with dysgenic feminists.
Pretty sure a good part of this is just an instinctual caution of men. Men are physically bigger and stronger and "forced copulation" unfortunately was and still is a somewhat viable reproductive strategy for men, not to mention forced marriages, martial rape, sex slavery and all that shit that happened throughout history.. Even men don't trust other men. Most men have a completely different reaction to their son getting a gf vs Daughter getting a bf.
In my general experience, women don't like the male gaze from strange men because they don't know what to expect and it makes them nervous, so they ignore it. Happens to me all the time. But once they get comfortable and realize I'm not going to force a relationship on to them, they become really open and even overtly sexual. Like, I had women find excuses to touch me, pretend to need my help just to get my attention and acting all girly, stretching their bodies to show off their curves and stealing glances at me just to see if I was looking. It's a lot of fun, ngl. Men need to be more chill honestly. Work on yourselves, signal your attraction ( a wink or a lingering glance at her face for a second should do the trick) and wait for her response. If she starts looking at you (takes a few days at minimum) feel free to strike up a conversation and ask her out. If not, move on to someone else.
The "male gaze" is only EVER resented when it comes from dysgenic men. Try this: next time you're out with one of your friends and a real winner comes walking down the street, You know, one of those internet atheist Redditor types, point to him and say, "your and his kid would be SO CUTE!"
And watch as a look of utter horror comes over her face at the thought of carrying his child to term and investing two decades in raising it.
Then do that with Jerome or Brett the bartender and watch her swoon and say, eggs right here, come on in!
Love this essay. The discourse on the Handmaid's Tale is a shining example of this selectivity.
Ofred, a fertile healthy woman, makes up less than 1% of the total female population in her world. Yet most anti-patriarchal stances are centered around her, how her fertility is "used" by rich men, and how Fred wouldn't choose her over his wife despite her having organically gaining his affection. No one talks about:
1. The throngs of women (most of the population) forced into prostitution.
2. The women past their childbearing age forced to live as matrons.
3. The low-class men forced to clean up radioactive waste.
4. The wives of the generals forced into the humiliating position of watching their spouses 'at it' with other women. You can't tell me this isn't a female fantasy in itself- sticking it up to wealthier, more privileged women by stealing the affections of their men.
Any discussion, if at all, is an afterthought. Which brings us to: the participants of the discourse always imagine themselves amongst the fertile and attractive and therefore privileged class. They don't and have never cared for the working class multitudes.
Actually the whole series is only popular with women. Men don't read it.
It's wildly popular because it caters to womens' rape fantasies of being forcibly impregnated by dominant, eugenic men.
Nobody cares for the working class: they're deplorable xenophobic sexists who voted Trump, three times. The second time we were only saved because brave MEN stood up and stole the election otherwise we would have had a second term of Trump.
The third time, they didn't stand up and we are where we are now, with literally Adolf Hitler demolishing the White House and institutionalizing racism.
In a faculty meeting recently, I asked someone what they were teaching, and she said, matter of factly, "The male gaze."
I think I accidentally groaned.
Even when I thought I had to be a feminist, I never bought the premise. Even though I hated being catcalled from men in landscaping trucks (the most common offenders) I somehow managed to understand male attraction as a necessary feature of carrying on the species.
I DO however, see how the male gaze is conflated with "power," because it can be incredibly disarming. Deer in the headlights -- happened to me all the time. The gaze can feel like a drug, like a slipped mickey. It's all by design.
And that's the problem with feminism. Its very nature is ANTI-NATURE. And look where we are! Heading towards extinction! Leading our best -- emptiest lives! My partner is a dog walker in Manhattan. He tells of numerous lonely middle aged women wandering the streets dressed like teenagers, begging him to ogle them (he's rather charismatic looking). These women are nearly all divorced....
Indeed, rather than give women the tools to deal with said gaze -- especially unwanted ones -- they taught women to feel like victims.
> I DO however, see how the male gaze is conflated with "power," because it can be incredibly disarming. Deer in the headlights -- happened to me all the time.
Didn’t you ever notice _your_ gaze having that effect on someone else? It happens, especially if you’d really like to get close to the woman, but you know you’re a piece of shit she could never be interested in giving the time of day. This includes the perception of her as powerful. If you’ve been duly taught to never dream of physically hitting a woman, there’s no reason at all to feel like she doesn’t have all the power.
"Feminist theory needed a universal explanatory frame for women’s dissatisfaction, and male desire was the easiest target." Brilliant. I still cannot understand how people can read anything out of the "gender studies" world. They appear hell-bent on writing the worst English in the history of mankind, with four line sentences, the random re-defining of common words, and a general misanthropy we had all hoped died partially in 1945, and more completely in 1991.
In any case, Ms. Pandey is an intelligent, interesting person. I loved reading this.
Perfectly fits within the framework of why my wife wants me to be assertive and dominate her, but refuses to even attempt to play to my visually-oriented bedroom style. How uncouth for a woman like her, to expend time and energy trying to get what she wants by making me, her husband, turned on!
If you don't want to be looked at how are you going to achieve that ? Wearing a burka is, I suppose, an option. Stay indoors forever? These seem like bad options.
You can no more demand that people don't look at you than they can demand you don't look at them. And we know you do look at others because you're human. If you like a guy just go up and ask him directions or some such. Stop pretending men have to make the first move, if that were the case half of you wouldn't have been born.
I appreciate the end notes, but you could have spared yourself the trouble by talking to literally any man. He'd have told you exactly this, and supplied you with even better quotes into the bargain.
While I don't always agree with you in general, I have to say this is one of the most on point, synthetic, and clear explanation of this dynamic that I have ever red. It deserves to be saved. Thank you!!
Don't y'all have chores to do? Errands to run? I'm sitting in the Atlanta airport and I don't see anyone if any sex looking at anything but their phones.
sigh, there is something in here that addresses a "universal" human condition ? men evolved for a desire for women but culture and civilization has altered us from pure animals, running around in packs with fire and barely any technology. and we talk among ourselves and save information. we are not animals but our innate drives are.
i would venture that most cultures value the "beauty" in young adults males and females but use a variety of cultural habits to judge and reward such individuals in each generation. the gaze is inherent but various actions are cultural responses.
at 70 years old, my american manners tell me "do not stare in public". As a "real man with a reputation/status in one's world", one never approaches a strange woman in public (because you are attracted to her appearance), civilized men do not do such. Those manners also state, "women should dress non-provocatively in public".
most attractive women dressed for travel in public or at work in the USA, often have to adopt facial expressions to dissuade strange men (always men) who approach them in public without permission. And learn to be rude as needed. Or avoid certain locations and situations, because the sense of physical/rape risk is too large. is it stupid to try to be safe ?
perhaps there are a number of men who are not "fit for society".
Just how many men are needed to perpetuate our culture with the technology our civilization has created ?
i like men and women seeking love and trying to find mates and partnering up and oops ! having children.
I'm interested in the male gaze in film and television. If women complain about movies and shows being all eye candy for men, I can respect that complaint because it is more or less true. However, some women think the solution is less female eye candy, while others think it's more male eye candy to balance things out. Any thoughts on how you'd respond to either?
I don’t think women gaze at men like men look at women, so more men to balance seems silly. There’s no market for it. I think there is no solution - why moralize about entertainment?
I dunno, Cosmo and Playboy both have an attractive female human on the cover.
Yeah, they did this in Germany. "life unworthy of life"
It was called Aktion T4 and was meant to stop dysgenic men from passing on their defective genes.
Feminism itself is a challenge for weak men to believe or disbelieve, if they disbelieve they're eugenic men and get to breed. If not, well, either they don't breed or breed with dysgenic feminists.
Pretty sure a good part of this is just an instinctual caution of men. Men are physically bigger and stronger and "forced copulation" unfortunately was and still is a somewhat viable reproductive strategy for men, not to mention forced marriages, martial rape, sex slavery and all that shit that happened throughout history.. Even men don't trust other men. Most men have a completely different reaction to their son getting a gf vs Daughter getting a bf.
In my general experience, women don't like the male gaze from strange men because they don't know what to expect and it makes them nervous, so they ignore it. Happens to me all the time. But once they get comfortable and realize I'm not going to force a relationship on to them, they become really open and even overtly sexual. Like, I had women find excuses to touch me, pretend to need my help just to get my attention and acting all girly, stretching their bodies to show off their curves and stealing glances at me just to see if I was looking. It's a lot of fun, ngl. Men need to be more chill honestly. Work on yourselves, signal your attraction ( a wink or a lingering glance at her face for a second should do the trick) and wait for her response. If she starts looking at you (takes a few days at minimum) feel free to strike up a conversation and ask her out. If not, move on to someone else.
Please don't WINK at me for God's sake
😏
The "male gaze" is only EVER resented when it comes from dysgenic men. Try this: next time you're out with one of your friends and a real winner comes walking down the street, You know, one of those internet atheist Redditor types, point to him and say, "your and his kid would be SO CUTE!"
And watch as a look of utter horror comes over her face at the thought of carrying his child to term and investing two decades in raising it.
Then do that with Jerome or Brett the bartender and watch her swoon and say, eggs right here, come on in!
Like a petunia in bloom trying to attract bees.
Love this essay. The discourse on the Handmaid's Tale is a shining example of this selectivity.
Ofred, a fertile healthy woman, makes up less than 1% of the total female population in her world. Yet most anti-patriarchal stances are centered around her, how her fertility is "used" by rich men, and how Fred wouldn't choose her over his wife despite her having organically gaining his affection. No one talks about:
1. The throngs of women (most of the population) forced into prostitution.
2. The women past their childbearing age forced to live as matrons.
3. The low-class men forced to clean up radioactive waste.
4. The wives of the generals forced into the humiliating position of watching their spouses 'at it' with other women. You can't tell me this isn't a female fantasy in itself- sticking it up to wealthier, more privileged women by stealing the affections of their men.
Any discussion, if at all, is an afterthought. Which brings us to: the participants of the discourse always imagine themselves amongst the fertile and attractive and therefore privileged class. They don't and have never cared for the working class multitudes.
Actually the whole series is only popular with women. Men don't read it.
It's wildly popular because it caters to womens' rape fantasies of being forcibly impregnated by dominant, eugenic men.
Nobody cares for the working class: they're deplorable xenophobic sexists who voted Trump, three times. The second time we were only saved because brave MEN stood up and stole the election otherwise we would have had a second term of Trump.
The third time, they didn't stand up and we are where we are now, with literally Adolf Hitler demolishing the White House and institutionalizing racism.
In a faculty meeting recently, I asked someone what they were teaching, and she said, matter of factly, "The male gaze."
I think I accidentally groaned.
Even when I thought I had to be a feminist, I never bought the premise. Even though I hated being catcalled from men in landscaping trucks (the most common offenders) I somehow managed to understand male attraction as a necessary feature of carrying on the species.
I DO however, see how the male gaze is conflated with "power," because it can be incredibly disarming. Deer in the headlights -- happened to me all the time. The gaze can feel like a drug, like a slipped mickey. It's all by design.
And that's the problem with feminism. Its very nature is ANTI-NATURE. And look where we are! Heading towards extinction! Leading our best -- emptiest lives! My partner is a dog walker in Manhattan. He tells of numerous lonely middle aged women wandering the streets dressed like teenagers, begging him to ogle them (he's rather charismatic looking). These women are nearly all divorced....
Indeed, rather than give women the tools to deal with said gaze -- especially unwanted ones -- they taught women to feel like victims.
And now women ARE victims -- of FEMINISM.
If only this made sense.
> I DO however, see how the male gaze is conflated with "power," because it can be incredibly disarming. Deer in the headlights -- happened to me all the time.
Didn’t you ever notice _your_ gaze having that effect on someone else? It happens, especially if you’d really like to get close to the woman, but you know you’re a piece of shit she could never be interested in giving the time of day. This includes the perception of her as powerful. If you’ve been duly taught to never dream of physically hitting a woman, there’s no reason at all to feel like she doesn’t have all the power.
I didn't have ALL the power.
Regardless, it's clearly counterproductive to insist that the male gaze is oppressive. It's just so unromantic, it's pathetic.
"Feminist theory needed a universal explanatory frame for women’s dissatisfaction, and male desire was the easiest target." Brilliant. I still cannot understand how people can read anything out of the "gender studies" world. They appear hell-bent on writing the worst English in the history of mankind, with four line sentences, the random re-defining of common words, and a general misanthropy we had all hoped died partially in 1945, and more completely in 1991.
In any case, Ms. Pandey is an intelligent, interesting person. I loved reading this.
Other inconvenient truths. Men also check each other out, it’s not all about women
Perfectly fits within the framework of why my wife wants me to be assertive and dominate her, but refuses to even attempt to play to my visually-oriented bedroom style. How uncouth for a woman like her, to expend time and energy trying to get what she wants by making me, her husband, turned on!
Men look, women read. It's why there are few great women artists but many great women writers.
If you don't want to be looked at how are you going to achieve that ? Wearing a burka is, I suppose, an option. Stay indoors forever? These seem like bad options.
You can no more demand that people don't look at you than they can demand you don't look at them. And we know you do look at others because you're human. If you like a guy just go up and ask him directions or some such. Stop pretending men have to make the first move, if that were the case half of you wouldn't have been born.
The only universal truth is this:
Women don’t fear the male gaze.
They fear being invisible.
They fear being seen by the wrong men.
And they fear admitting the difference.
Everything else is academic fan fiction.
What does it mean to _sexualize_ someone? I thought we were already sexual beings. Does it mean ‘to believe she’s in your league’?
I appreciate the end notes, but you could have spared yourself the trouble by talking to literally any man. He'd have told you exactly this, and supplied you with even better quotes into the bargain.
While I don't always agree with you in general, I have to say this is one of the most on point, synthetic, and clear explanation of this dynamic that I have ever red. It deserves to be saved. Thank you!!
I certainly don’t expect agreement but I do appreciate your reading.